Explosive Emotions, Play Therapy, and When to get Professional Help - a “Dear donna” episode with holistic psychotherapist donna scott,
In this episode, I discuss a very traumatic time in my life with my friend Donna Scott, My (5 year old) was being explosive, reactive, and violent- and I was beside myself with stress, sadness and concern. Take a listen to hear solutions offered from a holistic psychotherapist & play therapist Donna Scott, and understand better when our children need help. Donna also offers a key phrase that we can use to diffuse almost any situation when our kids get rough.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Hey guys, it's Emily and I am here today with Donna. I have shared a lot of background about Donna on my website and wanted to share with you guys today the way that Donna and I started having these conversations in the first place and it was actually my first experience with dealing with a very, very explosive, angry, violent child, honestly. He was only five at the time.
and I had a brain full of knowledge about gentle parenting and compassionate parenting and how I wanted to parent him. But I found myself in a situation when I really did not know how to respond to him. before Donna talks and responds, I just want to give you guys a little bit of background. So I...
Unbeknownst to me, my son was being very, very affected by the fact that I had just had foot surgery. And what was going on in my household was that I had had foot surgery, I was on crutches for only about like one day was I truly kind of out of commission. I went to have the surgery and came back that night. My parents came to town, so I thought this would all be super fun and easy for everyone involved.
But I'm always, I've always been a very active parent. One of his favorite games is to play tag, which kind of to me feels like I'm dying a slow death and playing tag. But that's one of the things we've always done together as a gesture of me trying to connect with him. So there were things like that I wasn't able to do and I wasn't up cooking with him in the kitchen, which we've always done a lot of, cause I was on crutches.
and my mom and dad were kind of the ones making breakfast, lunch, and dinner and mostly playing with him. And a few days into this, he really, really started to kind of implode or explode. I don't know. He,
Emily Garcia (02:12.935)
kind of the smallest thing would set him off, the smallest disappointment and he would physically start screaming in my face. I mean, it was so traumatic or punching me. I mean, my child had not punched me and probably, or hit me since he was probably three. Like this is, I would describe him as a sensitive child, but extremely, extremely caring and gentle natured.
So I was devastated and this went on for a couple of days. Something else he was doing was when he would get angry, he would really like, let's say his younger brother who was three at the time would do something that bothered him. He would turn and scream full volume in his face. It was so traumatic and I would scoop up Jason, move him away and
I was kind of managing the best I could, but I was extremely distressed. And I was also at the time like very
confused about how to respond to him because I think one of the things that a lot of parents struggle with as they try to parent more gently and more consciously is how to really really hold a firm boundary and how to really really make sure everyone is safe without screaming and yelling and punishing and One of the things I was trying to do was When he would have these huge explosions I would try to make myself
near him and like I would say, okay, we're not going to scream and scream and scream at everyone like this, but let's go into your room together. And he would be.
Emily Garcia (04:08.849)
And there's one story that I heard, a very, very popular psychologist or psychiatrist. I don't know who she is. I'm not going to quote this perfectly, but she told a story once on Instagram of a 16 year old girl who was really, really angry and upset. And she screamed at her mom to get out of her room. And her mom did. And she later looked at this doctor and she said,
Can you believe she listened? And that always stayed with me and stuck with me in such a state of confusion because I always stayed like paralyzed. Well, do I leave or do I not leave? Do I give them space or do I hold my ground and say I'm here and I love you no matter what? So I just wanted to share this background with you guys because...
One of the things that came from this with my conversation with Donna was so meaningful and powerful that I was like, if I ever have the chance, I want to share Donna's depth and breadth of experience to the world. And that's one of the reasons that we started this whole Dear Donna recording of our conversation. So I wanted to talk through this with you guys because she really, really saved me. mean, I, one evening it was so bad. I left my house and
was sitting in a parking lot sobbing and thinking to myself, I cannot believe I'm searching on podcast, violent five-year-old. What to do when your five-year-old punches you. Like I was so ashamed and I was so sad and there was, there were not really any podcasts coming up, but there were, there was this book called the explosive child. And I was like, are we there? Like, do I technically have an explosive child because he's been explosive for a few days in a row. And I don't.
I'm in the literally in the middle of a crisis. I don't have time to read an entire book right now. So it's also one of the reasons we wanted to make this available for you guys to send in questions because maybe you really have something insane going on in your household right now. And for a psychotherapist to chime in and be able to give you some feedback and some tools could get you through a very challenging time. And that's what happened for me. So Donna, don't,
Emily Garcia (06:33.068)
If you have anything that you wanna add from what you remember from that story, please do, but why don't you talk us through like what to look for and what to do when there's some really different behavior coming from our child or something explosive or something unusual and how we respond.
Donna (06:55.022)
Okay, great. That was a, it was a great conversation. can remember that. And I remember also being very inspired by you, Emily, because of how much heart and soul you were putting into not just that specific situation, but your entire course of parenting. And I remember thinking that it would be a pleasure to work with you and talk with you.
and brainstorm about things that we could do to possibly spread the word and help other people. what to look for, right? So usually when you're dealing with sudden change in behavior, of course you wanna take that seriously and you wanna watch it, not for too long, but it does, it indicates there's some stress.
But it could also indicate that something else more serious is going on, particularly if there is already an unsettled atmosphere in the family environment or the home environment or something that was very traumatic that recently happened that was still lingering. And then in those situations, you definitely want to seek professional advice, get your child to a play therapist.
Emily Garcia (08:05.91)
Mm-hmm.
Emily Garcia (08:12.3)
Mm-hmm.
Donna (08:23.342)
not to a talking therapist, depending on the age, but at least up to age 10, 11, you want to be still doing creative expressive art type therapy and play therapy, not just talking. And just, even if you just reach out to someone for an assessment, just call them and say, hey, I'm a little concerned, some trauma has happened or a significant traumatic life event or change in circumstances in our family.
could you just check my child out? So it's a wonderful experience for children to have play therapy. So doing that is not going to bother them or harm them. It's something that they will enjoy because it's play and you as a parent can be involved in it completely. So.
Emily Garcia (08:54.818)
Thank
Emily Garcia (09:17.858)
Okay.
Donna (09:20.158)
Always consider that first and foremost. In your situation, Emily, since I already knew a bit about you because we were taking intuition courses together and we had chatted a couple of times, though I don't recall them, the exact content. So when you reached out to me and you described your situation, I was able to discern that it seemed like it was acute that
Emily Garcia (09:25.698)
Mm-hmm.
Donna (09:48.813)
you know, just something that was going on that might be simple enough for you to address first. And then if problems continued, obviously, then I would have suggested that you grab yourself a play therapist somewhere. So because of that,
Emily Garcia (09:49.346)
you
Donna (10:12.318)
and you were able to take the suggestions and run with them and things seemed to calm down or settle down and improve. That was great. Sure.
Emily Garcia (10:22.307)
gosh. I want you to take a step back for one second, Donna, and tell me what you mean by an unsettled home dynamic.
Donna (10:32.578)
Well, lots of things can create an unsettled home dynamic, right? And sometimes those things can even be positive. So the birth of a new child, for instance, a new sibling, right? That's a positive. Right? Right. Right. It's a beautiful experience. And most of the time, not all the time, but most of time it's wanted, desired. But it's
Emily Garcia (10:44.593)
my god, that was so traumatic for me and my son.
Whoo!
Donna (11:02.72)
It's stressful. Just like the top 10 stressors for adults, one of them is moving or a new job or promotion or young adults' graduation from college. These are positive events, but they cause a great deal of stress, which means things are unsettled for a while because it's transition. And then you have your negative. Go ahead. Yeah.
Emily Garcia (11:04.075)
Mmm.
Emily Garcia (11:09.877)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Emily Garcia (11:26.58)
Yeah, I mean, it's bringing to mind the fact that we moved internationally last year and it was an extremely stressful time. I mean, it's when I was constantly thinking like, wow, my boys seem like super, super, super angry. I mean, all of their stress in the new social situations they were in, in their new bedroom, and the loss of their favorite hobbies and all of their comforts was coming out as anger. it was...
Donna (11:33.228)
Right.
Donna (11:36.994)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Donna (11:55.021)
Right.
Emily Garcia (11:55.091)
extremely stressful and I did engage them in some sort of play therapy by the way with a local a local gentleman who does like play fighting and then he He breaks it down from a therapy perspective after and it's so funny because I didn't even Really register that that has had such an impact on them, but it has Okay, so anyway other stressors talk to me
Donna (12:05.001)
Mm-hmm.
Donna (12:16.333)
Yes.
Yeah, right, moving for kids is usually difficult. And again, the anger, fight or flight, that's what that is, right? Which means there's some perceived loss that they can't communicate, you know, in a way that is, that can lead to resolution. They can't communicate too easily anyway about that. And or there's fear of the unknown, right?
Emily Garcia (12:25.056)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Emily Garcia (12:32.673)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Donna (12:48.246)
So, my, we moved, now what? Right? And that will trigger that kind of anger too. So, that was great that you enlisted some help there through that period and gave them that support. And sometimes that's all they need. Now, other negative stresses would be, let's say the marital relationship is strained, right? They sense, there doesn't have to be overt arguing or...
yelling or, but kids will sense tension and might respond to that. Not just tension because there's a small disagreement. I'm talking, you know, some major things that create disagreements and tension, but family discord of any kind that maybe wasn't there for a while and then shows up that can do it. And
Emily Garcia (13:45.696)
Mm-hmm.
Donna (13:46.325)
And or if the loss, like loss of a pet, huge trigger, usually, huge trigger. yeah, and some kids, if it's a beloved pet, if it's a pet that people weren't too happy with, maybe not, but absolutely. And I've had the occasion where parents will come into the office and I'm inquiring, okay, talk to me about changes.
Emily Garcia (13:54.538)
Hmm. Really?
Donna (14:16.218)
occurrences I often have to bring up. Okay, tell me about pets that you lost. Because in an adult mind, it's stressful for an adult too, especially if again, it's a beloved pet that's been around for a very long time. But it's really significant to children. So that will create the fight or flight and then again with loss, it's unknown territory. Some kids will act angry about it. Some kids will get sad and withdrawn.
Right? So marriage and family, the loss of a family member, you know, like a grandparent or an aunt or an uncle.
Donna (15:03.821)
Donna (15:07.318)
Of course.
Emily Garcia (15:07.466)
Social stressors, I would imagine, right? If you're kind of checking through some boxes and thinking none of those things apply, perhaps there's something going on at school. I remember you telling me a time, you know, of course you spoke in confidentiality and did not disclose any patient information, but you had a teenage patient who was really, really, really struggling and it turned out that there was one particular class he was failing in and he was like so ashamed and upset by it.
Donna (15:14.316)
Right. Absolutely.
Thank
Donna (15:35.726)
Okay.
Emily Garcia (15:37.267)
So social and academic stressors, know that the social dynamics at school are extremely stressful to my kids. So.
Donna (15:41.228)
Apps Group.
Donna (15:47.875)
Huge, huge. just recently, and I know that I can share this because it's my family. My little nephew is five years old. My sibling called and said, hey, we need your help. We don't know what's going on. And there was just this, there was a regression in behavior. And so through inquiring and asking questions, and I actually fed.
if this was my brother's child, actually fed him questions to ask the teacher and the guidance counselor. And we found out that one of the assistants in the classroom who was beloved by the students suddenly left because of a serious medical concern. And once we figured that out and the guidance counselor got involved,
all of his regressive behaviors disappeared. And he was back to being as happy-go-lucky self. So there are these key relationship changes, right? Whether they're peer, school staff, that can trigger. Again, trigger that fight or flight, and you're either gonna get some regression, some return of immature behaviors, or you'll get the anger or the withdrawn.
Emily Garcia (16:47.208)
wow, that's amazing.
Donna (17:12.628)
extra quiet behavior.
Emily Garcia (17:16.894)
So it sounds to me like when something's going on, we really have to kind of play detective and figure out what's going on. But I kind of want to say that so often as parents, we will easily like drag our kids, not drag our kids, happily take our kids to every single extracurricular activity and make sure they're getting everything they need from like a sports perspective. But when it comes to their emotional and mental health, which to me,
Donna (17:21.934)
You got it.
Donna (17:39.992)
Mm-hmm.
Emily Garcia (17:45.886)
literally drives their success ultimately in every other area of their life. We're so hesitant to bring in those resources and it sounds like if you know for sure that your child is experiencing, especially some major stressors in the household, then they really do need play therapy to process, or at least therapy to process what they're experiencing.
Donna (18:05.486)
Absolutely.
Absolutely, play therapy for preteen and therapy for teen. And keep in mind that play therapy can involve the parents. So it's family play therapy often. And in fact, when I'm working with young children, definitely under the age of eight, I always involve the parents. But also keep in mind that playing,
Emily Garcia (18:21.959)
Mm-hmm.
Donna (18:37.046)
not playing video games, but playing is crucial for development. Everything that is alive, in animal land or in human land plays, youth play. And it's a biological function that is absolutely healing and powerful and to...
Emily Garcia (18:40.242)
Right.
Donna (19:05.898)
use that in a therapeutic way is amazing. You'll get great results and it certainly isn't traumatic and it's often fun. So it's a shame there might still be some hesitancy. Like you said, we're very eager to make sure our children are participating in extracurricular activities, but play therapy is a gem of a resource for parents.
Emily Garcia (19:35.577)
Yeah. So I want to talk about how you had me incorporate play therapy in that particular situation because it was literally one play session I did with Cruz and his behavior shifted completely. And then I want to talk about, and this is bringing to mind also why it is so crucial that when our kids are acting like this,
Donna (19:36.961)
It really is.
Donna (19:48.344)
Right. That's right. That's right.
Emily Garcia (20:01.545)
or they're being explosive or they're being violent. don't rush straight to punishment because there's always something under the behavior. I mean, you're the one that tells me that it's always a cry for help. So if our kids are freaking out about something or acting explosive, or even if they have regressed and they're being super aggressive or more violent or more resistant for an extended period of time, we need to be saying,
Like, okay, what is actually going on here? And most of the time we already know, or maybe we don't already know, but a lot of times we think, you know what, they might be having a hard time with this, but I haven't really wanted to look at it. And.
Donna (20:35.566)
That's true.
Donna (20:43.606)
Great.
Emily Garcia (20:46.009)
so I just want to share the relief that Cruz and I found in that particular situation because you had me, get a stuffed animal and pretend that it was, it was injured and it had surgery. And I don't even remember specifically what we did, but basically I just kind of set it up and put one of his favorite stuffies on the couch. And I was like, no.
Bunny Bear, which is actually a bunny, we call him Bunny Bear, Bunny Bear hurt his foot.
And he was kind of like, what is this game you're trying to involve me in? You're so obvious because they miss nothing.
Donna (21:27.662)
Of course. No, that's right.
Emily Garcia (21:33.947)
And I was like, no, this isn't going to work. This isn't going to work. He's onto me. and I don't remember exactly what dialogue we used, but essentially bunny bear was able to get up and help to make a snack. And then a few days later, bunny bears ankle, or, know, which was a few minutes in this play, bunny bears bandage was taken off and bunny bear was playing tag and doing all of these things. And we were able to,
Donna (21:41.314)
that we need to all get through it.
Donna (21:54.178)
Mm-hmm.
Emily Garcia (22:03.74)
play through. I wish I had recorded it shortly after because there was a lot more detail and he did end up participating which shocked me because I'm just like he's not going to fall for this.
Donna (22:15.841)
That's so funny you say that because that really is the fear of a lot of parents. They're like, yeah, they see right through me and this is not going to work. really play is their language. Play is their way to figure out the world and to work through things they're interested in exploring or things they feel conflicted about or afraid of.
Emily Garcia (22:39.973)
Mm-hmm.
Donna (22:43.246)
we always turn it into play, always turn into play. So that was great that you did that. And sometimes it has to be done a couple of times, you know, more than once. You did great. He must have been ready because so that was wonderful. But we don't just sit down and talk with them about it and discuss their feelings that language area of the brain, you know, that really, really is
totally useful during adolescence and after, right? But pre-adolescent children are in the land of play and fantasy. Even if they're really bright and their verbal IQ is through the roof, doesn't matter. Their emotional development, right? Their emotional being is primarily in the land of symbolism. Everything means something. Let's pretend.
Emily Garcia (23:30.273)
yeah.
Emily Garcia (23:39.865)
Yep.
Donna (23:42.584)
So.
Emily Garcia (23:43.439)
And even on a lighter note, like if I'm in kind of a particularly tough rhythm with my boys, if I've been super busy with work and we haven't been playing as much or we're like at the end of the school week, meaning we haven't spent as much time together. One of the things that really, really, really shifts both of them is if I play with them physically for like 15 minutes. I mean, I wrote something on my website called, My Son is in a Hugger.
Donna (23:45.134)
you
Donna (23:55.886)
There you go.
Emily Garcia (24:11.373)
And this is what here's why it matters. And this is what I do instead. Something along those lines because he never really has been just a hugger. And, but he loves when I do ridiculous things like take his hand and pretend he's punching himself. And I say, like, stop, stop punching yourself. And I'm like, you know, or I break an egg over his head and I pretend the egg like goes down his back or, we do.
Donna (24:11.467)
and
Donna (24:26.286)
Right.
Great.
Emily Garcia (24:37.435)
I'm like, okay, it's time for piggyback rides. And then I run and I pretend like I'm going to jump on his back, you know, and just anything to play and be physical. And, um, I mean, it, that will literally not to, not to try to diminish and say like people should only play with their kids for 15 minutes a week, which I do sometimes, but like, that will literally get me a whole week of so much more connection when I have just.
Donna (24:43.534)
Right.
Donna (25:03.617)
Absolutely.
Emily Garcia (25:04.763)
played with them in the roughhousing type of playing that they like to do.
Donna (25:09.112)
That's right.
It is, it's all about play. That's how they, they bond or they repair a rupture in the bond. Um, or they just, they've been missing mom and dad and then that's, and that's how they reconnect. As long as the play is not too rigid or structured in terms of like, let's say you just said, okay, we're just, we're actually, I'm going to, we're going to play baseball together. You know, it's the, way that you incorporated the lightness and the humor, right?
Emily Garcia (25:25.764)
Yep, yeah.
Emily Garcia (25:29.978)
Yeah.
Emily Garcia (25:36.591)
Yeah.
Emily Garcia (25:41.998)
Yeah.
Donna (25:42.094)
That's important, that energy. Not too serious.
Emily Garcia (25:47.406)
Right, because if you go straight to a sport, it might just be kind of like more coaching and criticizing and controlling as opposed to,
Donna (25:52.523)
Exactly. it brings out, I know with some parents, it brings out their inner child and maybe they didn't have a chance to really win a lot and all of a sudden they're competing really hard to win. Right. that's right. Because we all have unmet needs from childhood that come into play and that's okay.
Emily Garcia (26:05.068)
Yeah. my gosh. Because we are all so crazy.
Emily Garcia (26:16.366)
I know.
Yeah, yeah, totally. And then I wanna talk about really like the boundaries that you helped me establish when even though I knew he was hurting and something was going on, I still couldn't let him scream in his brother's face or scream in my face or punch me. And so talk me through that.
Donna (26:44.83)
Right, so that again, well that would go back to, you know, that I like the word safety. So that's what I tend to have coach parents to use, like, no, we stay safe in this house. staying safe doesn't include hitting or biting. Those things are very, very hurtful and can lead to something that is very unsafe.
Emily Garcia (26:59.001)
Okay.
Donna (27:14.222)
And it also doesn't include getting so close to your brother's face and screaming. So in terms of boundaries, it's about we stay safe in this house. And I emphasize you using the language we. We don't want to talk to our children and say, you need to stay safe. It's no, we stay safe in this house. This is a family rule, right?
Emily Garcia (27:19.427)
Yeah.
Donna (27:43.398)
and
Through time, kids will definitely pick up that that is a boundary that they need to follow, respect. You may have to consequence them a bit in order to help them learn to follow it. But it's not that difficult for them to understand because it's a rule.
that is carried out in most all of the environments that they participate in, whether it's a school environment, etc.
Emily Garcia (28:18.553)
Okay, so.
What might that consequence look like?
Donna (28:23.928)
Well, that depends on the situation, right? So consequences always depend on each child, right? And a child's nervous system profile or their personality. And it depends on the family and the personality of the family too, right? So I'm not one to subscribe to one size fits all.
However, there are some guidelines like consequences that seem to be natural or logical are useful. But in terms of the individual child, some children are still operating more from one part of their brains more than another. You know how we have our left brain, right brain and
you can tell by their personality. So a child who's a little bit more hesitant, sensitive, withdrawn, hides easier, you want to do a lot more coaxing in terms of consequences. if you do this, you're going to get this. Mommy's going to spend extra time with you. You don't want to be too harsh or too controlling. But if they're
pretty assertive and full of action and a little too physical sometimes you can say, no, no, no, we don't do that, that's not safe. And if you are going to be doing that then we're going to have to limit the time that you spend watching your favorite YouTube video.
Emily Garcia (30:13.419)
Really? Even though it's not a direct correlation? Or it's not a direct, it's not a direct, cause you know they always talk about.
Donna (30:17.118)
Yeah, yeah, if it's not natural, if it's not natural, yeah, absolutely. Again, the guideline is if it's something that's natural or logical, right, you want to go there first. But if that's not always doable or possible.
Emily Garcia (30:35.991)
Okay, so back up to before when you said when they're younger, you might need to do some coaxing because I wasn't quite following what you meant when you said that you were saying like, that's okay.
Donna (30:45.526)
I'm sorry. So what I meant was that's more about a child's personality style, right? So we look at like left brain and right brain functioning, and you don't have to do that as a parent necessarily. if your child's personality style is more sensitive, meaning they can get overstimulated easily, they withdraw when they're overstimulated, or get more fearful or anxious.
Emily Garcia (30:50.582)
Uh-huh.
Donna (31:14.094)
you would want to be more coaxing in terms of you want to say, hey, if you stay safe and you stop that yelling, we're gonna be able to do this later. Or you'll get...
Emily Garcia (31:34.451)
like, like,
Let's say if you'll, know you don't want to brush your teeth, but if you're, if you're able to stop yelling and we can keep moving forward with the night, then we'll have time to read more books or something like that. Okay. Okay.
Donna (31:42.68)
Mm-hmm.
Donna (31:47.146)
Exactly right. We get to add a book to the list right? Perfect.
Emily Garcia (31:51.636)
Okay.
Donna (31:56.17)
Okay, we're.
Emily Garcia (31:56.373)
I really like to stay safe because I know you said it's not one size fits all, but so often as parents, like especially if they do something super outlandish, like punch us or bite us, we're like, are you kidding me right now? Like we tend to recoil and we show so much disgust with their behavior and what they're really struggling with is a total lack of impulse control. Or if it's an older child,
Donna (32:17.46)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Emily Garcia (32:26.049)
They're really in a state of distress. And we just need to take that, like holding onto that phrase, like, nope, we're gonna stay safe and punching me is not safe and being ready to be super, super neutral and not add a whole layer of shame onto what's already probably some really negative behavior. That's such a great neutral phrase to just have in your pocket, you know?
Donna (32:28.142)
Mm-hmm.
Donna (32:52.204)
Right, right. Again, emphasis again on that word, we too, because that will help take care of some of that shame, possible shame, because we're saying we, we stay safe.
Emily Garcia (32:59.7)
Yeah.
Emily Garcia (33:04.18)
Well, and the other thing I like about that is it leads to neutrality among siblings. mean, I think so often parents accidentally kind of increase sibling rivalry by saying, how dare you hit him? You are the older brother. The older brother never hits the little brother. He's smaller than you and you know better and he doesn't know better. And it's just this neutrals phrase that can apply to any situation.
Donna (33:21.72)
Great.
Emily Garcia (33:34.59)
In this house, we stay safe. And that's it.
Donna (33:36.622)
That's Mm-hmm. Then that's it. You don't even want to get too wordy about it or explanatory. You don't need to defend it. You're the authority figure.
Emily Garcia (33:48.064)
Right, because their brains can't process more words anyway. They're probably not even processing it. All they're really processing is that you're holding that boundary, you know?
Donna (33:50.965)
No.
Donna (33:55.288)
That's right.
Emily Garcia (34:00.234)
And what about being with them when they're super, super worked up, angry, screaming, they've just screamed in your face and you're saying, how do we handle that?
Donna (34:12.066)
We don't do that. That's not safe. We're safe in this house, right? And that includes speaking to each other in a way that doesn't hurt. Right? You're screaming. It hurts my ears. Or you're screaming at your brother. It hurts his ears. Right? Ouch. We stay safe. So what do you...
Emily Garcia (34:22.218)
Emily Garcia (34:31.754)
Yeah. Yeah.
Donna (34:40.526)
What? do you need here? Okay. And understanding that if the tricky part here, kind of tricky, but is if they are screaming, yelling, pinching, hit, going to hit or even hitting, they're in such a state of fight or flight. There's so much adrenaline and the other stress chemicals flowing through their body. They do not often have.
Emily Garcia (34:42.901)
Yeah.
Donna (35:10.232)
control. So sometimes parents just use put some nonverbal gesturing to like putting your hand up like a stop sign, right, putting your hand up and saying, Hey, hey, we stay safe or stop. That's not safe. And we and we stay safe here.
Emily Garcia (35:11.414)
Mm-hmm.
Donna (35:30.38)
Right.
Emily Garcia (35:30.934)
Okay, now let's get to, I love that, Donna, I love that. I literally feel like I'm gonna put a stop sign on my refrigerator and remember, but instead of saying stop on it, it's gonna say the word safe.
Donna (35:38.063)
There you go, the shape of a stop sign. That's perfect. Which goes, that will help prep them for, you know, when they start learning how to drive, right? They'll recognize that stop sign and know safe if I stop. You're planning speed, so that's good.
Emily Garcia (35:48.885)
Emily Garcia (35:59.055)
Let's talk about how we then revisit these things later, right? Let's say they don't have an idea for play therapy, but they know, you know what? Earlier today, my son was really dysregulated after school or my daughter started melting down in the car after school. And then all of a sudden she started screaming at me. And how do we revisit that later? Because I think
One of the places where I've gotten stuck is feeling like I need to be with them to process their emotions. And a lot of times they might just need some space for a minute. And the most important processing comes later.
Donna (36:44.462)
Exactly. Right. Well, you give them space, right? Not again, it's more of an, a queuing, right? Looks like you need to take some space. It's not done necessarily punitively, right? It's more for, to give them an opportunity to calm down.
Emily Garcia (36:45.609)
So how do we do that?
Donna (37:13.664)
Now, having said that, take some space. Again, with all that adrenaline flowing and all, they're going to need to do something. So let's say they run to their room. Then if you go there for a minute, just go check on them and say, hey, punch your pillows. Throw your stuffed animals safely. It's okay. You're upset. I'm here if you need me. And they might start screaming, get out of my, get
for me get out of my room or I hate you though you know the worst three words right right that you're did you that you're an annoying person right wait not me that's right that's right that's right
Emily Garcia (37:48.156)
right? Mine is the current one in my household is you're so annoying. And I'm like, silently shedding a tear as I walk out of their room because
Emily Garcia (38:06.182)
where I would never be the annoying mom and yet here I am.
Donna (38:11.776)
And in that instance, sometimes, you know, it is okay to let them be. But as long as you are clear that you are available. Okay, I'm gonna let you be for a couple minutes. I'm gonna be just outside in the hallway, or I'm gonna be in the kitchen, or I'm gonna go get some laundry, and move it into the dryer. And then I'm gonna come back and check on you. Let them know ahead of time.
and they'll be, you they might have a negative comment about that too. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. That doesn't control you. But yet you're respecting their space too. You're not abandoning them. You're not disconnecting from them.
You're giving them. Right.
Emily Garcia (38:57.767)
That's interesting. You're not disconnecting from them. What if you tell them what if you suggest that they need some space? And they're like, No, I don't. I just need all of you to stop being so annoying. And they just stand there.
Donna (39:08.014)
you
So really good thing to do if you can, right? Safety first, blah, blah. Do a little bit of the active listening, just to throw out some emotional words like, wow, I can tell you're really upset or I can tell you're super, you looked really disappointed because we were supposed to watch a movie together and we didn't, right? Or disappointed because your brother,
Emily Garcia (39:16.317)
Uh-huh.
Donna (39:39.673)
possibly accidentally knocked over your Lego structure that you just built. So you're upset, I can tell, right? Give them some labels, not a lot of explanation or just, hey, I can, because you want them to also feel seen and heard in their experience.
and then add the action step to it. Like maybe you need to just do some jumping jacks or maybe you need to run around a bit or maybe you need to roll, rolling is a good one or punch the pillows or oh, here's all this bubble wrap that just came from the shipping box here, pop the bubbles on the bubble wrap, right?
Emily Garcia (40:13.191)
Yeah.
Emily Garcia (40:30.438)
I know one of the things that helped us, especially when we had just moved and my older son was having such a hard time is when we were doing like a revisit session and I was like, buddy, you seem like you're getting really, really angry often. And I can tell you have so much going on. Maybe you're feeling stressed. Jace is annoying you. School feels like a lot.
Can we come up with a plan together of things you can do when you just feel like you're going to explode?
Donna (41:03.982)
And that's all, that's perfect, right? So that's the final step to everything is follow, having a little follow-up chat. And that's what you were doing there. And that's when you can each share, connect, talk, and even that's a nice time to do a little imaginary play too. And then instead of directly coming up with a problem solving list or an emotional first aid kit, you can just, you can play a bit, just play a bit.
Emily Garcia (41:11.281)
Yeah.
Donna (41:34.17)
and the bear can get sad or the bear can get angry or the bear can say whatever the issue is. But also the playing is good because if there is there's usually always an unmet need coming into play here and your best chance at identifying that or one of your good chances best chances is it will emerge through the play.
Emily Garcia (41:39.089)
Mmm.
Emily Garcia (41:59.578)
Interesting.
Donna (41:59.694)
and you'll be able to catch it.
Okay, my dear, actually have no, I just looked at time. I just looked at 15.
Emily Garcia (42:04.335)
Well, okay. Okay.
Thank you so much, Donna. It was amazing. my gosh, I learned so much. Thank you so much.
Donna (42:11.565)
Is that good? Okay. All right. So we'll connect about tomorrow, tomorrow. Okay. That good? Okay. Thanks, Emily. That was fun. Okay. Bye.
Emily Garcia (42:19.921)
Okay, yes, yes. All right, talk to you later, bye.
Emily Garcia (42:28.463)
Okay, so in this particular case, what we came up with was he was gonna grab an apple and go for a walk because often when he gets that angry and explosive, he's usually hungry and or tired. And just like Donna said, he needs to move some of that anger out of his body. So it really helped us to make a plan.
in a moment when he was not feeling so angry and explosive for what he was going to do the next time. And then afterward, I could just say, you seem super angry. You have every right to be upset. And I would hand him an apple and he would just go outside on his own and usually come back much more regulated. So I just wanted to share that.
The play is really tricky for me guys often when things get that explosive and stressful There's not a bone in my body that wants to play but like she said it can happen later later that night or the next day when everyone's feeling more light-hearted So I hope that this reflection and the history of me and Donna was helpful to you guys
If you guys learned anything from what Donna and I shared or if it caused you to reflect on anything in your own household or your own relationships and don't forget those keywords in this house, we stay safe because it will help you to stay neutral. It will help you to always have a fallback phrase you can use when things get tricky. It doesn't encourage sibling rivalry because it doesn't show favoritism to any child and we will do a follow-up conversation on sibling rivalry.
So I'll talk to you guys soon. In the meantime, I'm go make my stop sign for my refrigerator that says safe on it. Okay, thanks for listening. Please comment or message if any of this was helpful to you. Bye.
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